Curse

Niosisw · Mar 31, 2006, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Wow guys, you seriously don't know how to distinguish between bot and sweatshop farmer.....

Bot: Mostly Mo/E and Mo/W who take the same EXACT path out of droks everytime. The true bots I was sure 100% that were bots by the path they took were mo/w

Sweatshop farmer: Mo/W or range of other secondaries that actually TALK and don't take the same exact path every single time. Those guys give you free exp. Some even have GUILDS.

Zeph · Mar 31, 2006, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunai

20 characters, same class, names all start with the same thing? WOW, BOT ALERT!!!

How about not. People have done similar things before. For what? FUN. Maybe they wanted to trick gullible people like you. :P But since you said you don't care what anyone says, I'll stop trying to bring common sense into this.

EDIT: Also, they seem like really effective bots. You know, just standing there in town doing nothing...

Don't talk rubbish. It was about 10mins after the servers come back up from maintenance, they were not normal in how they were there and stacked at storage. It was like some change in the game code had confused them and they were stuck. Then it was like someone noticed and they all left, not in groups as you would if they were a party, but 1 by 1 within seconds of each other.

Just cause I'm not you, don't class me as guilible, I have enough common sense and know enough to realise it wasn't a normal party meeting up.

Anyway, I just wanted to post this because I had been reading this thread and it seemed related, so thought I would post it. Its funny how aggitated you seem by my post...not bought any ebay gold yourself have you. lol Now take your flaming post attitude and go jump.

ghostlyranger · Mar 31, 2006, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjd03003

The message spamming in chinese (or whatever) was so fast that if it were in english I could not have read it. Obviously a hot little market place going on.

most others district ppl are spamming WTS and WTB as well.

Thallandor · Mar 31, 2006, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niosisw

Wow guys, you seriously don't know how to distinguish between bot and sweatshop farmer.....

Bot: Mostly Mo/E and Mo/W who take the same EXACT path out of droks everytime. The true bots I was sure 100% that were bots by the path they took were mo/w

Sweatshop farmer: Mo/W or range of other secondaries that actually TALK and don't take the same exact path every single time. Those guys give you free exp. Some even have GUILDS.

I agree, most of them are likely to be sweatshop farmers from China etc accounting for all the spamming of WTS in both US/Int Dist of Forge. Perhaps its mentioned here before, that its not easy to program a bot program to aviod mobs while running to the troll cave spamming skills at the correct time, picking up loot zoning back to town and selling them and repeat since they arent really any shortcut keys we can use normally for those things. If theres a bot program that can really do all that....the programmer probably should spend his time on other bigger ambition with his skills.

Its easy to try to spot a sweatshop farmer, while they are in town just open trade/join party/pm one of them and they will most likely try to sell you something and conversations will most likely include things like: I SELL YOU CHEAP! OK! YOU BUY NOW!! YES!

peace

Sunai · Mar 31, 2006, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeph

Don't talk rubbish. It was about 10mins after the servers come back up from maintenance, they were not normal in how they were there and stacked at storage. It was like some change in the game code had confused them and they were stuck. Then it was like someone noticed and they all left, not in groups as you would if they were a party, but 1 by 1 within seconds of each other.

Just cause I'm not you, don't class me as guilible, I have enough common sense and know enough to realise it wasn't a normal party meeting up.

Anyway, I just wanted to post this because I had been reading this thread and it seemed related, so thought I would post it. Its funny how aggitated you seem by my post...not bought any ebay gold yourself have you. lol Now take your flaming post attitude and go jump.

So now they all must be bots because they all left around the same time? Interesting.

They may very well be bots, but these conditions are not sufficient proof to say, without a doubt, that they are. If you've heard of flash mobs, they could have just decided to make a large suspicious group, stand around in Droks int1 for a few minutes, and then disappear. It's unlikely, but some people seem in a rush to condemn others. What happens if you just banned 20 legit accounts?

There are many other situations in which they may be legit players, but I feel throwing them out will net the same "They look like bots, so they have to be bots. And that's enough for me." response. Are you a fan of witch hunting?

I also found it interesting how you jumped to suggest that I buy gold just because I'm not so quick to accuse like you are. "What!? You don't think she's a witch? You must be one of them! Burn them both!!".

Farmermancer · Mar 31, 2006, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Actually there are very few real bots in this game, simply due to the inefficeny of their success. A co-worker of mine from singapore showed me one at an internet cafe, it was the biggest PoS I'v ever seen. Worked about every 4 to 5 runs outside droks, often running into gashers, getting nuked by avicara and get stuck behind a tree, getting disrupted by trolls. We both had a good laugh, since it took the thing about an hour to get a little over 500 gold.

Most of them are sweatshop farmers, who have little understanding of what they are even doing. I'v taken screenies of this and they talked to me as well. Lets just say they dont get very far, which is probably why they require so many farmers.

Now, Chinese farming does not hurt the economy. If you really understand real Economics, you will understand why this statment is true. God, you have no idea how wrong this statment is in Economics. It's just the same as saying outsourcing hurts the economy, which it doesn't.

Consumers Benifit
First, the effects of the chinese farmers create a huge, positive externality on general players providing cheap, inexpensive items. In this game a 14^50 req 8 long sword costs 40k from an American seller, but now I can buy it for 5K from a chinese farmer. People who have real life money and demand for items are able to obtain then them through eBay, MAXIMIZING THE GAINS FROM FREAKIN TRADE.

Producers Benifit
Second, the chinese farmer are mostly real people. Do you ever wonder why they work in sweatshops ? Are they not being exploited ? hmm... lets look at the alternatives to working as a sweat shop chinese farmer. Prostitution, homeless person, pornography, criminal uh... wanna try think up other alternatives to sweatshop working when you have no money, no education, no trade skills to begin with? Chinese farmers don't do this because they want to, they do this because it beats the hell out of the alternatives.

The pie is getting BIGGER... this is a pareto improvment

Losers, Anet propaganda and Inflation
Lastly, chinese farming does hurt Arena Net, by essentually capturing potential economic rents that should belong to Arena Net. This is potential money that could in theory belong to Arena Net and not the chinese farmers and their bosses. Arena net uses this games "economy", as a reason to hate chinese farmers claiming "item rareness" and other nonsense. Arena Net and NC soft are buisnesses, just like any real buisness you only care about profit maximization and will gauge the most money possible from a product.

Inflation, only happens when the government does nothing but inject money into an economy temperarily solving deficit problems. The chinese farmers are no just giving away millions of gold to anyone for free, they charge real money for gold. This is not inflation... its a secondary market that has developed for so called "guild-wars gold". Guild-wars gold is not the same as saying it's "money" since it's not a government regulated medium of exchange. New gold is being "created" by everyone meaning that everyone has a magic machine that can print dollar bills, not just the chinese farmers. Everyone is causing the so called "inflation" not just the chinese farmers.

What Arena net should have done is set up their online own store which sells items for real money, to mitigate the secondary market that was bound developed.

Won't only people with the most real money afford rare skin items?
Theres something in Economics called "demand", but only about 1/4th of the people who know this word actually knows what it means. Your willingness to pay dictates how much you "want" a specific good. If someone is willing to pay $600 USD for a good why not let them.

Uh.. how about its not fair to the rest of us who can't afford it!
Real Economics is seldum considered "fair".

bad person · Apr 01, 2006, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niosisw

Bot: Mostly Mo/E and Mo/W who take the same EXACT path out of droks everytime. The true bots I was sure 100% that were bots by the path they took were mo/w

I see a few problems with this statement:

1) Bot or regular player, you don't always zone into a town in the same location, so you wouldn't take the exact same path out of town every time.

2) Like anyone else, these 'bots' also have to hit the merchant and/or storage from time to time (again goes against your exact same route theory).

3) From wherever you are in town, as long as its in your radar, you can hit Alt and then click on the Talus Chute sign. This will take you over essentially the same route every time as long as you're coming from the same area. All you have to do is take control over your character just before you get to the exit.

4) Not every character takes the same route every time - you would have to watch the same character over and over to see if it was actually the same exact route. While I'm sure lots of people like to watch the so-called bots come and go, I doubt they watch the same one each time they zone into town. Watch as they exit...if they truly took the exact same route, they would be going single file to the exit; they don't.

Cottage Pie · Apr 01, 2006, 01:06 AM // 01:06

I've said it before, but I once got many of these 'bots' to start DANCING! that proved for me they are mostly people, individual people who occasionaly take a break, but pretty much they are hard at it all the time - be nice to them

and the term 'chinese farmers' is honestly bloody racist, it's like me calling someone a black idiot... Just think about it.

prodigy ming · Apr 01, 2006, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Beeline, you seems to be the only aggresive poster here... if you want to make a point maybe you shouldn't call people brainless to start off with.
After all this talk... the best solution which has been mentioned many times is for people to stop buying gold from these so call "chinese farmers" on ebay. But since this most likely wouldn't happen, people just have to suck it up. Besides, if you spent enough time on a game to get so furious about things that harder affect you, I think you zealots need to take a step out the door and enjoy some sunshine.
by the way, "chinese farmers" used in this context is very racist and the community should stop using this term. Its not like white people and black people don't farm.

finally i think this thread is extermely pointless and people will start flamming soon (or already have)... why don't we just close this?

nihilo · Apr 01, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

I know, I know, everybody knows that there are farm bots in GW. I went to see them for myself and sat by the exit to Talus Chute in Droks, taking screenshots of the farm bots as they run by. There are many 55 monks that look suspicious, and I know that many actual players farm out of there, so I only took pictures of monks that ran the exact same route. I didn't move at all, I just stood right beside their run path and let them come to me. In at least one of the pictures you can see 2 bots running in complete sync with each other (1 monk, 2 names). Most of these bots aren't in guilds.

edit: picture censored

Want to see for yourself? Just go to Droks, sit by the entrance to Talus Chute and watch for 55 monks running by that are following the exact same run path, without stopping. There's an awful lot of them, and you know that they must be unbalancing the game economy.

And it turns out that 90% of 55 monk bots are female.

Caleb · Apr 01, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

You can't post peoples names on GWGURU, expect your picture to be gone if you don't black out every name.

Omnidragon42 · Apr 01, 2006, 10:35 PM // 22:35

I farm outta there with my 55 monk, but I usually stop in front of the gate and do a /flex or /rank or say, "Look! I'm not a bot!", just to be funny

dahlen · Apr 01, 2006, 11:29 PM // 23:29

I went to the International district 1 and observed the stream of outgoing Mo/W in the exact same path.

After a while, they all stopped and started screaming with their symbols and svastikas. And they were many.

http://www2.hemsida.net/nightwolf/bots.jpg

Where do they get these bots? How do they work?

If possible, post links when the picture is too big for the page please. - Swampgirl

dahlen · Apr 01, 2006, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Hehe! Just realized how fun it is to ruin their runs... You grab one and aggro everything and let him fight them... He will die. You will also steal the loot etc.

Jimma · Apr 02, 2006, 12:01 AM // 00:01

TBH some are not bots. Im tired of people saying ZOMG bots>_> Really cant robot and human get along ;p

prodigy ming · Apr 02, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

[QUOTE=dahlen]I went to the International district 1 and observed the stream of outgoing Mo/W in the exact same path.

After a while, they all stopped and started screaming with their symbols and svastikas. And they were many.
QUOTE]

Those are Chinese language, please refrain yourself from ignorantly insulting another culture's writing by degrading them to merely symbols or "svastikas".

They are asking to buy other players' gold armour or weapon material in that screen shot.

nihilo · Apr 02, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29

If you doubt that they are bots, go to Droks and sit at the entrance to Talus Chute for 5 mins. Look in the direction of the nearest merchant (the npcs that make armor, as opposed to the storage npcs), and watch monk after monk come from that direction, taking exactly the same path. Also note that the vast majority are not in guilds, and have rather nonsensical/mispelled names. The name thing was interesting to note.. but out of respect for GWG I edited them out. Note: I'm talking about American districts.. not international. And these names are not using foreign characters.. they are just odd. There were three monks that had the same combination of (Chinese? I don't know) words, just in different orders.

I'm not saying that there are not real 55 monk farmers. However, I am saying that if you go and actually watch monks that are going out farming, it really starts to look as if at least half of those monks are bots.

Sunai · Apr 02, 2006, 12:38 AM // 00:38

How to take the same path:
Upon zoning in, hold down alt and try to find the "Talus Chute" sign, and click it. You'll start running to it automatically. If you can't see it, click one of the "Crafters' Corner" signs instead. Then click the "Talus Chute" sign when you're in range to see it. Once you see the portal, click beyond it. Viola! Now everybody has proof you're a bot!

cherikku · Apr 03, 2006, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farmermancer

Actually there are very few real bots in this game, simply due to the inefficeny of their success. A co-worker of mine from singapore showed me one at an internet cafe, it was the biggest PoS I'v ever seen. Worked about every 4 to 5 runs outside droks, often running into gashers, getting nuked by avicara and get stuck behind a tree, getting disrupted by trolls. We both had a good laugh, since it took the thing about an hour to get a little over 500 gold.

Most of them are sweatshop farmers, who have little understanding of what they are even doing. I'v taken screenies of this and they talked to me as well. Lets just say they dont get very far, which is probably why they require so many farmers.

Now, Chinese farming does not hurt the economy. If you really understand real Economics, you will understand why this statment is true. God, you have no idea how wrong this statment is in Economics. It's just the same as saying outsourcing hurts the economy, which it doesn't.

Consumers Benifit
First, the effects of the chinese farmers create a huge, positive externality on general players providing cheap, inexpensive items. In this game a 14^50 req 8 long sword costs 40k from an American seller, but now I can buy it for 5K from a chinese farmer. People who have real life money and demand for items are able to obtain then them through eBay, MAXIMIZING THE GAINS FROM FREAKIN TRADE.

Producers Benifit
Second, the chinese farmer are mostly real people. Do you ever wonder why they work in sweatshops ? Are they not being exploited ? hmm... lets look at the alternatives to working as a sweat shop chinese farmer. Prostitution, homeless person, pornography, criminal uh... wanna try think up other alternatives to sweatshop working when you have no money, no education, no trade skills to begin with? Chinese farmers don't do this because they want to, they do this because it beats the hell out of the alternatives.

The pie is getting BIGGER... this is a pareto improvment

Losers, Anet propaganda and Inflation
Lastly, chinese farming does hurt Arena Net, by essentually capturing potential economic rents that should belong to Arena Net. This is potential money that could in theory belong to Arena Net and not the chinese farmers and their bosses. Arena net uses this games "economy", as a reason to hate chinese farmers claiming "item rareness" and other nonsense. Arena Net and NC soft are buisnesses, just like any real buisness you only care about profit maximization and will gauge the most money possible from a product.

Inflation, only happens when the government does nothing but inject money into an economy temperarily solving deficit problems. The chinese farmers are no just giving away millions of gold to anyone for free, they charge real money for gold. This is not inflation... its a secondary market that has developed for so called "guild-wars gold". Guild-wars gold is not the same as saying it's "money" since it's not a government regulated medium of exchange. New gold is being "created" by everyone meaning that everyone has a magic machine that can print dollar bills, not just the chinese farmers. Everyone is causing the so called "inflation" not just the chinese farmers.

What Arena net should have done is set up their online own store which sells items for real money, to mitigate the secondary market that was bound developed.

Won't only people with the most real money afford rare skin items?
Theres something in Economics called "demand", but only about 1/4th of the people who know this word actually knows what it means. Your willingness to pay dictates how much you "want" a specific good. If someone is willing to pay $600 USD for a good why not let them.

Uh.. how about its not fair to the rest of us who can't afford it!
Real Economics is seldum considered "fair".

You tell them Farmermancer!!! I love it when people respond knowledgably.

MelechRic · Apr 03, 2006, 02:31 AM // 02:31

^^ /Agreed!